December 13, 2019


OUTSIDE THE WALLS : Pagans, Mormons and Atheists

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (name change 2018) {Est 04/06/1830}

– Catholic Answers, & City of God – Socratic Method.

Ever wonder why, the world today, speaks so highly of Mormons, as honest and wholesome people? Mostly because for the most part this is true. In this apologetic effort, I will examine the fundamental beliefs of the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” from their scriptures known as “standard works” 1) Holy Bible -KJV, 2) Book of Mormon, 3) Doctrines and Covenants (“D&C”) and 4) Pearls of Great Price.” Of these 4, only the Holy Bible is considered partial scripture for a Catholic, so on this we agree. Yet, a Catholic examines any works based on its textual content, views them like any other historical record and NOT with a starting point of the presumption “inspired of God”. Instead we say, this can be “more accurate than any other books claiming to be of God. Thus, we do not pre- assume the Bible is inerrant, but we do believe it to be the Word of God, as handed down from the prophets “written” words that MUST stand the test of truth as well as time. As such, we cannot use one Joseph Smith testimony to prove another, or other writings of J. Smith testimony to be true. That would be a circular argument as opposed unworthy of debate or investigation. Catholics consider any in-congruence, or out right conflicts a very serious issue regarding Holy Scripture,casting grave doubt doubt on the prophets testament, thus leads to the prophet’s invalidation as an instrument of God. So let’s examine does Joseph Smith’s testimony meet our “standard” worthy of being believed in Faith? Or Not! With this as our understanding, let’s “Examine” Joseph Smith Standard Works considered “sacred, inspired scripture” for Mormon teaching!

  1. What makes LDS unique? Believing that Smith restored the doctrines of the early Church fathers that were lost shortly after Jesus death (1st 100yrs) and his disciples. Joseph Smith, a 14 year old at the time receiving a revelation of from 2 personages – believed to be gods, 1) the Heavenly Father and 2) Jesus the Christ; told him “he was chosen to restore the priesthood and the authority of the Church and to act in God’s name. Joseph Smith then claims the ability to translate an ancient record on ‘golden plates’ into English, called” (Doctrines and Covenants {“D&C”}).” Because LDS members believe J. Smith restored Christianity, they call themselves Christians. From the 8th Article of Faith, the written inspired authority is a) bible KVJ, b) The Book of Mormon, c) Doctrine & Covenants (“D&C”), d) Pearls of Great Price. {Four books rather than just one many Christians trust as their sole source of belief!} CA Response: Catholics know that “divine revelation for “Christianity” ENDED at the death of the last Apostle. Public revelation ceased as Jesus came to fulfill the law.(Mt5:17). Also as Apostle James’ brother & Apostle writes,”contend for the faith…”once for all delivered to the saints.” (Jude3). As the leader of the Christ’s Church on earth, Peter said in speaking of Paul & the Wisdom given unto him, “some things are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do with other scriptures.(2Pet3:16). Apostle John enclosed another warning for (Rev22:18) Prophesy: “If anyone adds to them, God will add to them the plagues described in this book.” For 20 Centuries the Church has taught John was the last living apostle at 100 AD. Other Christians believe that the Bible alone is the inspired written word of God. Receiving visions and dreams must be “tested” for centuries people have fallen to grave error – thru “spirit of divination” – the false system of ascertaining the divine Will of God, is Forbidden – (Dt18:10-12,Lev19:26),(Gn44:5,Ez21:21),(Is41:21-24, 44:7) (Acts8:9, 13:6,16:16,19:13, 19:19)(Lk11:19) (2tim3:13). People through the ages desire divination dreams. ”For it is also written, “even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it Is not strange his servants disguise themselves as servants of righteousness”(2Cor13-15). St Athanasius (360 AD) Saint & Doctor of the Church wrote “let us note that the very traditions, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning which the Lord gave. was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Apostles and preserved by the (‘Early Church’) Fathers. On this, was the Church founded; and IF ANYONE departs from this, he NETHER IS OR NO LONGER ought to be called a Christian….” {Four letters to Serapion of Thimus1,28}
  2. Common myths about LDS: practice of polygamy was ended 10/1998 by G. Hinkley,. “D & C” 132:61-66 polygamy is morally acceptable by J Smith, who held 33 wives. In 1890, W. Woodruff received a revelation concerning polygamy, that it should end, as the USA enacted laws forbidding the practice of polygamy. Utah was granted statehood in the USA. Mormons do not worship any other Mormon but honor the angel Moroni and their prophet J Smith. Mormon temple rituals are neither sexually perverse or Satanic! C A Response: So the official Mormon position on polygamy is that God changed his mind. Or the inspired word of God J. Smith’s revelation can be overruled by man, such as an LDS President and still be true? Catholics teach (The holy family is to be imitated as God’s plan for us, as He himself revealed. (Gn2:23-25; Gn4:1-2 ;Gn5:2 ; Gn7:9) (Mt1&2, Lk1&2). This examination finds, -The accepting of man’s law for Utah statehood and reversing J. Smith testimony is a “serious breach of integrity” creating outright conflicts in LDS revelations merely 60 years apart from its origin. Despite that this change is now in accord to the evidences of Truth revealed to us, as God’s desire and intent for mankind recorded in the Holy Bible. From – Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, & St Joseph the carpenter & earthly guardian for Jesus, neither had polygamous relationships. On the temple rituals – “sexually perverse or Satanic” , I find no cause for derision.(Ps2:2-4)
  3. Mormons believe about God? ‘the Supreme and Absolute Being. “D & C” 130:3 the idea that God dwells in the heart of man is a sectarian notion and false. God is not a “spiritual being”, who created everything from nothing. Instead God is flesh and blood in a body. According to “D & C” :130:22, “the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s.” CA Response: Catholics believe God is infinite and perfect spirit (Jn4:24), unconfined in the physical. (Jer23:24) Do I not fill Heaven & Earth? God is transcendent exists beyond space & time and NOT of the physical or spiritual things, He created.(Jn1:3,Col1:16, Lk24:39 “a spirit has not flesh & bones”) St Thomas Aquinas states, “eternally before there was any place, yet immensity of His power, He reaches all things that are in place.”;Omni-presence Being (Ps139:7-13); Omniscience (Ps139:1-6))” Following is our attempt to describe God, who has revealed Himself: to us.> God is: ONE (Jn10:33),Deut6:4);Is43:10-13);Col1:16), Unchanging (Mal3:6), Spirit; Truth; a Being; I AM THAT I AM (Ex3:12-14); Sovereign (Ps93:1), Unbegotten; Light; Indescribable; Unique; Holy (Is6:3); Perfect; Supreme in All; Infinite (1Tim1:17); Ineffable; 1Lord (Wis1:1); to His Substance is to Be; the fullness of Being; Sublime; Indivisible; Love (1Jn4:16),(1Jn4:8). Mormon explanation: I answer that: The 1 who called into being the universe, heavens, earth, being from non-being or a vast nothingness. (Ps9:33,Sir18:1); He did not create it as a Chaos, but formed it to be inhabited(Is45:18); God is Almighty;omnipotent;omni-present; Above All that He Created (everything); The necessary Being that maintains the existence of the universe, All Light and Life;Source and cause of the universe,Creator (Gn1:3)(Ps33:9), Outside Time as to his creation; and Fundamentally independent from creation; slow to anger and abounding in steadfast Love (Ps45:8); Justice; faithfulness; clemency;and Mercy; One God and father of all, who is above all.(Eph4:5), Rom1:23), Gal1:3-8); With God for Him, Nothing is impossible (Lk1:37); Maimonides -13 Principals of Faith,) considered the greatest Jewish codifier & philosopher on Jewish History, widely accepted creed of Judaism. I believe with Perfect Faith: (abbreviated here): 1) God alone creator of all things, 2)God alone is One, 3) God does not have a body, 4) God is the 1st & last, 5) only pray to God, 6) all the words of the prophets are True. 7) Prophesy of Moses is absolutely true 8) God gave the Torah to Moses the greatest prophet {J,Smith or Mohamed are not one of them} 9)Torah will not be changed 10) God knows all a persons thoughts & deeds 11) God rewards and punishes souls based on the His Laws 12) In the coming of the Messiah 13) God will bring back the dead back to life. Not a single Principal conflicts with Catholic dogma/ doctrine(as John the Baptist is not considered a prophet as we consider him greater than Moses)! Do Mormons say the same? – Unfortunately NOT per Smith’s own testimony, see 1,2,3,4,8,&11! In conclusion I find that J. Smith’s Testimony (D&C130:3 & 130:22) above is an “attack on” the very essence and understanding of our Christian God, as handed down from all the Hebrew prophets and Early Church fathers. The Catholic Church is in possession of many thousands of manuscripts and has made many of them available on the internet!
  4. Mormons defend God has a body: Gen1:26, Ps47:8 (sitting on throne), (Acts7:55-6) right hand, (Ex33:11 speaks face to face to Moses) Mormons claim,”These passages make no sense if God doesn’t have a body!” CA Response: Catholics believe God as unrestricted in form, can reveal Himself as He desires, examples {“I AM THAT I AM”,burning bush (Ex3:1-22),a human wrestling (Gen32:24-32) a cloud & voice, doves (Jesus baptism) & Mt w Transfiguration – a cloud & voice), inside the Arc of the covenant, Yet scripture teaches God is invisible spirit (Col1:13, 1Tim1:17, 1Tim6:16, Ex33:20). While Jesus set aside his divine glory (Phlm2:7) Jesus said,” no one except him who is from God has seen the Father “(Jn6:46) In summary, “figurative lexicon style used in scripture is NOT sufficient proof for belief in changing a 5 millennia of faith & tradition in the ‘immeasurable’ God of Life and therefore must be considered in complete conflict with truths established about Our Christian God.
  5. Mormons believe men being able to become gods. ”King Follett Discourse – Sermon”- J Smith said, “ I am going to tell you, how God became to be God…… God came from all eternity.., I am here to REFUTE that…”God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” Pearl of Great Price in Book of Abraham – God rules on a throne….near a star or planet in our universe called Kolab!” Mormons believe there are more than 1 god and gods can “come to be” or “begin to exist”.(Book of Abraham) teaches existence of multiple gods in the creation of the world (ch4). Mormons refer to this belief as a plurality of gods..Once LDS President,Lorenzo Snow teaches “As man now is, God once was, As God now is man may be.” Mormons believe that god and man are the same species “Humans” are less developed gods and have the potential to be exalted! J Smith ”King Folette Sermon”…eternal life to know the wise and true God,….learn to be gods yourselves, and to be kings,and priests to god, the same as all gods have done before you….grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation”.Eternal progression is the doctrinal (solution) to every god being a man first then god. CA Response: Catholics believe in the One True God. The King Follette Discourse – Sermon rejects everything the KVJ bible has written about God. Catholics believe in the resurrected body and soul BUT our God will not be watching over our spirit children not yet born, but praising God, throughout eternity attending his wedding feast. He has revealed himself ALMIGHTY; all knowing, all powerful, omni-presence without beginning or end (outside of time & space), a Singular Being of three persons, we name the Holy Trinity. He is the Great I AM, Jesus the only redeemer and name above all others given to man for our salvation, Holy Spirit the giver of life, all gifts, our guide and conscience. The only place in Bible – scripture where men become “like” God is the serpent lying to Eve,(Gen3:5) “you will not die, for God knows… will be “like”God – knowing good & evil” & (Gen3:22) The man has become like one of us ‘knowing from good and evil’……lest he put forth his hand and take also from the ‘tree of life’ and eat and live forever’” .. Yet even here, man is only ‘like” & not a god, just because man is perceiving good /evil. Even Satan dare not claim that more than 1 God exists..(as Mormon doctrine states per above)
  6. Doctrine of “eternal progression” Man becomes god was man into eternity: CA Response: Catholicism teaches there is an unbridgeable gap between what God is and what man is. God the infinite creator always existing, depends on nothing in order to exist. Humans have a beginning and depend on God to exist. We hold this view for at least 3 reasons. #1) Doctrine of eternal progression,is in direct opposition the Judaeo-Christian monotheism belief (only 1 God). There is but one God and we worship him alone.(Dt4:39), (Is45:5) God says, “I am the Lord thy God and there is no other,besides me there is no God.” (Is44:8) Is there a God besides me? I know no other. If the progression existed would not the god of this world know of his god when he was man? Then (Is43:10) “Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me!” In the NT – (Jn5:44,Jn17:3), (Rom16:27),(1Tim6:16) It is recorded that martyrs died for the one God who manifested himself thru His son, Jesus Christ. #2) Catholics reject eternal progression because it “contradicts” the created and dependent nature of the universe. Instead there must be a being that can’t fail to exist and keeps the universe in existence. A necessary Being, God that depends on nothing to exist. God therefore could never been finite and a mortal man dependent on something else to exist. Our current cosmologist Vilenkin,”all the evidence we have says the universe had a beginning.” #3) Eternal progression contradicts our understanding of God’s nature. ( I the Lord do not change (Mal3:6), from everlasting to everlasting thou art God.(Ps90:2), God is not man….. (Nb23:19), God declares,” “ I am God, not man.” (Hos11:9) Finally, even J Smith Folette Discourse-Sermon contradicts his Book of Mormon rejecting his own teaching “God is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity”. (Moroni 8:18). As if that one verse form the everlasting gospel is not conclusive enough how about?, Therefore, “eternal progression” is antithetical to Judaeo-Christian belief since Abraham. This plus the direct conflicts among the Book of Mormon itself on important doctrine places a very dark abyss of doubt on the Mormon claim “J. Smith is a prophet”, using the standard guides for all prophets tested of Judea and Christianity, certainly not a Christian prophet.
  7. Mormons defend doctrine of eternal progression: We know from revelation there are many gods, not just one. (1Cor8:5-6),(Ps86:8) & (Jn10:31-34). CA Response: Selecting a few verses without reconciling and ignoring so many others is not an acceptable debate for the truth, but rather clearly demonstrates LDS uniquely weak position. This one “tops the cake” as it completely contradicts their own Book of Mormon. (Alma 11:28-31)-Now Zeezrom said,”Is there more than 1 God” and Amuleck answered, “NO”!….. Quoting from another source in LDS Standard Works {KJV}, distinctly Ex20:1-17 Thou shalt not have false gods before me. Does NOT imply other gods, but refer to false idols in human frailty. Money, greed, power golden calf, all have been referenced as humans gods, but no one theologically believes “paper money is a god?”. In Jer10:1-16, Jeremiah describes and emphasizes that pagan idols were the work of human hands, therefore they remain mute, inanimate, powerless. In Jn10:31-39 In this discourse, Jesus reminds them of what the accusers refer (gods) Jesus corrects them stating I said ‘I AM the Son of God’…Mormon teachers deflect while ignoring 2 clear verses that refute their very teachings 1) Jesus,”I and the Father are One” he does not say I and the Father are two. 2) In verse 34 (same passage) Jesus restates his oneness with the Father, “the Father is in me and I AM in the Father.”, Mormon belief that we become gods is a belief in divination of self. The very opposite, that Jesus taught. Catholicism & the Hebrews never interpreted gods to mean “real or alive”, but surely and fully false deities (idols) of pagans – who believe in polytheism. Quite prevalent throughout Canaanites (descendants of Cain) had several gods that Abraham rejected and left his family, in search of the One True God! Yet all others were mere divination’s of their believers. So the psalmist of Ps86 recognizes that the One True God is not like the “false gods” dead in works and acts, worshiped by Gentiles or Canaanites. Paul talking to Greeks & Romans who are familiar with their Greek gods or Roman gods, today we call it “Mythology”. In the above 1Corinthian8 verse cited by Mormons teachers, if one looks only 1 verse prior Paul proclaims, “we worship but one God”. “there is no God but one”(1Cor8:4) while in this very verse “WARNS of eating food offered as sacrifice to “idols”, the very use of this passage as a rebuttal is nothing less than Greek Mythology, and displays a lack of understanding in context of Biblical TRUTH. In John 10, Jesus uses the Hebrew writers term of gods to dismiss the Jews Blasphemy claims against him. The scribes & prophets wrote “gods” or were called gods, he does not “claim” that the Hebrew writers were correct just unpunished by these very accuser’s as prophets, writings for no less still calling the false idols, or corrupt human leaders men that die, “gods”, such as references to the alters of Baal. Maintaining two directly opposing views is more evidence of a conn job than religion.
  8. What Mormons believe about creation: the world is eternal! God is just one being who exist within. The universe was formed and organized, not created ex nihilo out of nothing. Not only is matter “UN-created” and eternal so are the souls of humans. According to (“D & C” 93:28) “Man was with god in the beginning Intelligence or light of truth, was not created or made neither indeed can it be”. Also, the concept of “pre-mortal existence where all human beings have forgotten this existence since they were sent forth to be born, “spirit children.” Mormons have officially recognized the existence of a heavenly mother to beget the spirit children, and “many truths about the Heavenly Mother are unknown and one should not speculate on the matter.” Finally, a Mormon defends Spirit children with KVJ Bible verses (Jer1:5) & (Eph1:4). CA Response: Catholics believe God who is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We see, Angel Gabriel’s announcement of the Savior, ‘Hail full of Grace’, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you…..the power of the ‘Most High’ will overshadow (“episkaisei”)…. the child will be the ‘Son of God’. (Lk1:35) Jesus after his resurrection commissions his disciples to baptize, “In the name of the Father, and of the Son & of the Holy Spirit”. (Mt28:19). At Pentecost Peter proclaims the “Holy Trinity” repent & be baptized “in the name of Jesus, receive the Holy Spirit and everyone to him our Lord our God calls to him. (Acts2:38-39). But It is God who establishes us with you in Christ,and has commissioned us, He has put his seal on us and given his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee” (2Cor1:21-22) {J. Smith DENIES this in book of Mormon. The world was prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible. (Heb11:3) Shepherd of Hermes AD80 says, “Believe first of that God is One, that he created all things and set them in order, and brought out of nonexistence into existence everything that is and that he contains all things while he himself is uncontained.”(the Shepherd1:11). Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Catholics believe God, as the beginning and end of all things, knows all that does or will come to pass. Therefore; he per-ordained – Jeremiah, John the Baptist, the Virgin Mary, Saul (Paul) and others that they would carry forth God’s plan for mankind’s salvation on earth. (Jer1:5) The concept or thought of God does not mean that souls are created in the beginning at the moment of God’s thought then at the appointed time send the soul down to earth, in the same manner that Jesus came down from heaven! Jesus is the only one with a pre-existence Jesus asks the Father, “glorify in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed”. (Jn17:5). For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. God the Father thru Jesus the Son would be the Savior of mankind from the foundation of the world.(Eph1:4) Jesus is the unblemished and blameless sacrifice. Paul uses “us” as we are part of all mankind. In conclusion, besides the above apology, J. Smith Book of Mormon is in direct conflict with Paul in 1Cor1:21-22, as a Catholic, I choose Paul’s epistle to Corinthians written 50AD versus the 14 year old son of a reformed christian preacher, who said the apostasy occurred after 100AD and 1(cor1:21-22) is WRONG!. These conflicts also points to his error of Catholic Apostasy according to Smith.
  9. What Mormons believe about Jesus Christ: That Jesus was an intelligence like us who existed from eternity past. (“spirit child”) He was not always Divine. Not always the Son of God. God chose Jesus to become the first born by giving him the first spirit body, (“D & C” 93:31) Jesus told J Smith, I was in the beginning with the Father and am the first born; and all those who are begotten thru me are partakers of the glory of the first born. “The Father of Jesus is our father also.” In1909, First Presidency statement. While Brigham Young taught that Jesus was begotten of his father as were we of ours” thru sexual intercourse with Mary, but their modern church does not take a position on how Jesus became incarnate, and denies that the Church ever taught Brigham Young’s version as official doctrine. Jesus not only our brother but the brother of all living spirit children of the Father including fallen angels like Lucifer. On a Mormon apologist website calling to faith – “It’s technically true to say that Jesus & Satan are brothers, in the sense they have the same Spiritual parent, God the Father.” some defend this belief with Jesus is the”eldest” brother. “first born of creation”, – (Col1:15),(Rom8:29),,- and first born among of many brethren. Some Mormons claim Jesus is not fully divine as the Father due to Jn14:28, Jesus says, “the father is greater than I.” Mormons do not pray to Jesus only to the Father “Ye must always pray to the Father in my name”(Nepi18:19).
  10. CA Response: Catholics believe about Jesus: Catholic understanding of Jesus is a completely different Matrix than Mormon doctrine teaches. Catholics confirm and believe, – Jesus, fully God and fully man has long been established and the “Didactic” arguments have been firmly vetted within and without the Church, such Gnostics were excommunicated from the Catholic Christian Church over the centuries. You can even read this in non-gospel – NT books. Paul ( a Jew, Greek and Roman citizen) understanding of Title ‘First Born’ of creation means he has authority over all creation, not that he was the first created “Thing”. In (Col1:15-17), (definitely different than the Mormons) Paul also writes, “for in him all things were created, in heaven and earth, visible and invisible …. ‘all things’ were created through Jesus ‘ALL things’ were created for him. Jesus is before all things, in Jesus all things hold together. Jesus cannot be one of the things created! {Clearly Paul is defining “1st born” of Jesus and follows with a complete understanding, of the very verse Mormons use to support Mormon teaching when in fact this actually refutes it!}. Once again in (Rom8:29) Paul is talking about us being adopted into God’s family through Jesus in Baptism, “first born of many brethren” thru Jesus being the first fruits, we have our HOPE to be raised from the dead in Resurrection,as ALL will be resurrected on the last day. (Jesus honors his father with respect as God’s law requires, as his son (Jn14:28) does not diminish his Divinity! Rather refers to the weakness of his humanity, that the Father does not share, Thus his Father is greater.. Yet scriptures say, In the upper room Jesus appeared before the Apostles a 2nd time and Apostle Thomas, kneels down and profusely worshiped Jesus, “My Lord and My God”. Jesus said to him, you have believed because you have seen me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed”(Jn20:28-29). And Behold, they (his disciples) came up to him, and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.(Mt28:9). In Acts 9, Paul falling to the ground,…asks, Who are you Lord? I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting”! Paul tells us in (2Thes2:16-17) includes “the Lord Jesus Christ” himself in the prayer of this verse! Furthermore Jesus is fully divine and fully human, there was never a time when the son did not exist or was not as divine as the Father. In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God, and the word was God.(Jn1:1) The Word was NOT an intelligence, a spirit child, or a god, BUT simply God. We know the Word is God, the Son as (Jn1:14) states the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus says to John in (Rev22:13) I am the Alpha & Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end! Jesus is not a “spirit child”, the invention of Joseph Smith never supported by any other. Not even himself, when in 1834-5, Your great prophet, J. Smith wrote in “Lectures on Faith” “the father and the son are separate gods, the holy spirit is merely the mind of the two” thus contradicting his later spirit child doctrines {D & C 93:31}.
  11. Is the Church of LDS a Christian church?:Mormons cringe at the suggestion they are not Christian as even their namesake Latter Day Saint of Jesus Christ. Mormons claims the huge schism occurred around 100 AD (after ALL the last eye witnesses of Jesus had died, the Church Jesus left in place on Earth and guided by the Holy Spirit went astray. Needing the ship “righted” God the Father and Jesus spoke to J. Smith at age 14, made him a prophet and led him to the proper understanding about God and Christianity. All modern churches have since fallen down that same broken path, until 1830. Smith’s Book of Mormon teaches God the Father (fully god)(but was once a man on earth), the other 2 personages Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are spirit children of the father, later became gods. All three are distinct, lived as men (human beings – same species as man) and have since been exalted. S Mormons claim to believe in one “Triune” God but their writings state there are 3 Gods who cooperate so perfectly they might as well be one. C A Response: Mormons claiming that one should pray only to the Father claim this through their denial of the ‘Holy Trinity” – as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are ONE! Mormons are not the first to teach the Trinity are 3. Catholic strong historic teaching refutes this theology and on this subject openly available to all. St Gregory of Nyssa (died 385AD) wrote “On Not 3 gods written to Ablabius” needs no further witness.(refer to to it!) The LDS position is once again in direct opposition to their “own Standard Works testimony, {“(Alma11:28-31 -”Now Zeezrom said is there more than 1 God? And Amulack answered,”NO,”and Zeezrom said unto him again, “How knowest these things”?And he said, “ An Angel hath made them known unto me.”) While Mormons from their own testimony of“Standard Works” hold double think positions – two totally opposing views while claiming them both true?! Thus Catholics pray to the Great “I AM that I AM”. The Father of the Mormon god was a human and of the same species made from created things. In Conclusion, a Catholic must respond, “Mormons do not worship the same God, as Catholics, the First Christians believers as recorded in the KVJ (standard works) – NT of Acts, specifically (Acts2:37-42) on Pentecost Day.
  12. What is the Book of Mormon?: According to J Smith, in1823 angel Moroni appeared to him and revealed the location of “gold plates”, in the language of “reformed Egyptian”. Moroni took 4 years to translate as J Smith peered through a hat. By 1829 Smith finished his translation with Moroni’s help and published the Book of Mormon Mar 26, 1830. Moroni dies, but buries the “gold plates” ..on the hillside. Moroni becomes an angel. The book claims 11 witnesses (3 saw the plates, & 8 that handles them,)to these events. Mormons quote (Ez37:16-17), Take a stick and write on it for the book of Judah, and another stick, and write on it Joseph for the book of (Ephraim) and join together. Mormon converts are asked to read the Book of Mormon, and seek wisdom from (Jas1:5) For faith to accept the Book of Mormon. Mormons claim the authenticity is proven by J Smith was incapable and ill read to accomplish this without divine intervention. CA Response: The principal of illiteracy, is not proof of anything except Joseph Smith’s lack of scholarship. Instead this is further evidence as to the cause of errors, that an under educated 14 year old would make documenting historical records readily available, definitely “ Not evidence of prophet-ship”! J Smith 6th grade education helps explain his plagiarism of errors in KVJ, lack of archaeological evidentiary support in the Book of Mormon, and its failure to mention just one key Mormon doctrine mentioned above. Additionally all Smith’s witnesses mentioned in their scripture are non-existent outside the text itself, and their apostasy to the LDS Church speaks volumes of itself.
  13. Why don’t Catholics accept the Book of Mormon arguments a C A Response: Beginning with the mystery of the gold plates now said to be in heaven “not buried in upstate New York”. (as it as described in the Book of Mormon), or somewhere rumored hidden in the Salt Lake City Cathedral with only the President can view etc., …rumors abound, yet the plates have vanished. The “angel” Moroni, has never been mentioned by other prophets or written about previously, then DIES? Catholics teach angels are Spirit and live eternal before God. Just one more “inadvertent Theological slip”, as is a new teaching by J. Smith the prophet? The only evidence for the plates as ancient artifacts in the book itself, is uncorroborated, remains unable to be authenticated. We are a Church of Saints, relics, artifacts, mysteries proudly displayed throughout the world for the faithful & non-believers alike to examine and believe. Then we have Jesus birth place error. Alma (7:10)”shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem. Which is in the land of our forefathers” But in KJV (Mt2:1) “Now when Jesus is born of Bethlehem of Judea”.(Micah5:2). Another basic tragic error found in J. Smith’s Book of Mormon! The Ezekial 37, reference is a lack of Literacy error, Smith mistranslated, “stick is stick” and not a scroll or book as Smith transcribes, see stick used in 1Kings17:12 The Ezekiel verse describes the reuniting of North and South Israel. Not unification of Jews & Mid-East with Mormons in America, that is clearly a “bridge to far!” without further references. (Jer17:9) “the heart is devious above all else, it is perverse, who can understand it?” ( this concept may have been plagiarized from Martin Luther (16th century) and not even Joseph Smith’s original work from the messengers? Neither the Catholic Church or the Holy Scriptures confirms this prophesy thus it is necessary to believe “Truth” as delivered from over 2000 years from Jesus and his apostles OR this single source error filled Book of Mormon requires “faith” of their faithful recruits on its own merits? Praying on “(Jas1:5)” reference once again is a bold effort to challenge a recruits pride of sincerity by Mormon leadership and lack of understanding in God’s word. The promise, in (Jas1:5), is God will help us be wise through prayer, it is NOT signet Holy Spirit guarantee for understanding for determination of “truth” and scripture”. (2Pet3:16); (2Tim3:14); Such self interpretation of biblical scriptures, has led to CHAOS in many Christians teachings ( As Paul states in (1Tim 3:15), the pillar and foundation of truth “The Church” is trustworthy and is not a personal testimony received from J Smith, from “outside the walls” of the Apostles. Misusing this bible verse is best defined as “Sola Scriptura LDS style” The current Mormon negative proof, “Smith was incapable of writing this book on his own”, does not dispute he may have had human help, there still remains no testimony existing outside the Book itself. Such a weak standard for inspired scripture. Furthermore, the 11 witnesses in the Book itself, 3 of 4 die or most others became Mormon apostates within a few years, none willingly testify to the veracity of this book..”outside the book itself”, maybe they were desirous for saving their own souls perhaps? Even a Mormon Apologist, B H Roberts admits that the book “ ‘A View of the Hebrew” written only 5 years earlier, may have actually inspired Smith”. Like the TV crime stories “only the names have changed (for people and places to protect their true identity”!!. Admitted or suspected ‘Plagiarism’ reported by a Mormon apologist is sufficient reason alone to NOT accept the Book of Mormon as inspired and therefore unworthy for belief. (DT18:20-22)
  14. What other reasons Catholics reject the Book of Mormon as inspired Word of God. Smith announces a ‘New or Another Testament of Jesus Christ’, yet all ‘reasoned’ guided ‘Katholikes’ call to mind advice from Paul ‘s urging, ‘test all things for truth retain what is good’. (1Thes 5:21). After all 1800 years of silence, it ‘came to pass’, as per John’s instruction, (“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophesy of this book. If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues in this book. He who testifies to these things says, Surely I am coming soon” Amen. Come Lord Jesus).(Rev22:18) St Paul makes his own exhortations , “Even if we, or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you,let that one be accursed.” (Gal1:6-7) (DT18:20-22). Another problematic issue is “Lack of archaeological confirmation and out right errors” – Lacking maps, not a single referenced city or battle referenced in the book of Mormon has yet to be found and excavated. Nor have animals, (not native to Americas as Smith reported), written about their remains are yet undiscovered. Silks, technologies or metals as detailed in Smith testimony, all as of yet, go undetected. For it “came to pass,” the National Geographics archaeologists and other anthropologists have long searched the hemisphere for substantiation of Smith’s Heavenly claims in his Book of Mormon. Instead of evidence for J. Smith’s revelations of non indigenous animal remains in the Americas, forensic anthropologists found other prehistoric skeletal remains of (Allosarus, Ankylosaurus, Coelophysis, Deinonychus (N.A. Raptor),Diplodocus, Maiasaura, Ornithomimus, Stegosaurus & T-Rex) all NOW on display in North American museums. Yet not one of these animals were ever mentioned? Where as, ‘sola fide’ Faith Alone remains the battle cry to new Mormon recruits seeking their “recommend cards”. Now 180 years ‘has came to pass, for Smith’s Book of Mormon & the golden plates mystery, to surface, all remain hidden behind a veil of secrecy? Smith’s evidentiary case todate as an historic book lacks sufficient supportable facts for belief. While Mormons inform their faithful, and over a billion reasoning Catholics & other Christians, are told, “you remain in your sins and error, for NOT accepting Smiths true testimony of “sola fide Smith”. What ‘has come to pass’ for evidence is instead plagiarism. Curiously, a word for word copy of the King James Bible language of dozens of chapters from the prophet Isaiah and New Testaments (“NT”) verses, without Bible citations due Paul or Isaiah such as, Moroni7:44-47 are written as IF, they were Smith’s own hand direct from his heavenly messengers. One only wonders with the worlds findings of the Dead sea Scrolls with a complete book of Isiah intact how many errors exist from these copied texts? Since the NT was not written prior to the time when “Nephites” roamed North America, are we to conclude Nephites received Paul’s testimony first, or was Paul plagiarizing his testimony from the Nephites? Despite that Robert Bennet (another Mormon apologist) judges prophet J Smith deserves a pass, by commenting with “inadvertent slip”. For Catholics Blatant errors such as these “are not tolerable.” In conclusion, it came to pass’, the Book of Mormon is more “like” the Moby Dick of Gulliver’s Travels in a Lillipution satire, a work of complete “pulp” fiction.{ all three written in the same time period}
  15. What of the Book of Abraham?: Smith purchases an Egyptian papyrus in Kirkland, Ohio in 1830. Smith believed it is of Abraham’s own hand, his translation lays out a Canaanite theology – plurality of gods, the existence of ‘spirit children’ pre-mortal souls, and describes a council of gods meeting before the creation of the world. In 1880 this book of Abraham becomes part of Mormon Cannon of Scripture. C A  Response: Egyptologist examined Smith’s copies and later the original, (found misplaced in NYC Met Museum of Art in 1966). Our rebuttal to the Mormon Book of Abraham and its support for related multi theism, first turns to Mormon Egyptian scholars themselves that claim Smith’s translation is “completely wrong”. We now know, (less than 100 years later), the Truth, that it was NOT by Abraham’s hand but the papyrl is actually about the Egyptian god Osiris and the figure as Pharaoh is really the Egyptian god Isis. So it ‘came to pass’ Moses and Abraham remains the father of the Jews, and our belief in the one true God, therefore Is NOT contradicted by Abraham’s own hand. The papyrl (Smith had purchased) it is now believed, may have been in the possession of an Egyptian priest tomb named Horis, 2nd century B.C , dated 1000 years after Abraham lived.. Mormon usage of this Egyptian record implies a complete denial of our current archaeological existing evidence of Holy Scripture. (the dead Sea Scrolls of the Septuagint discovered in 1947 are the oldest scriptures on record). In conclusion, Smith’s Book of Abraham had nothing to do with Abraham, and his message ‘has come to pass’ is erroneous so by this alone J Smith as a prophet has failed on 2 counts necessary for biblical scripture. YET the Mormon Church persists to Crucify the Christ, with this lie against God in Canonical Scripture and insists that J. Smith remains their prophet, having all gifts of god and belief in Smith’s revelations. The LDS goes on teaching, (that Catholics and other Christians that recognize the One True God, the Triune God of the Christian faith is in vain.) while teaching a “restored Christianity” from Jesus through this false prophet (DT18:20-22) , Joseph Smith’s ‘Doctrines and Covenants’ and other “Standard Works”
  16. What do Mormons believe about marriage? Any marriage is an eternal reality, especially those “sealed” in the LDS temple called a “celestial marriage”. Yet a marriage performed outside of their temple is only a life long event and dissolved upon death. According to (“D & C” 131) states, “ In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees. And in order, to obtain the highest level, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood (covenant of marriage)…that is the end of his kingdom…he cannot have an increase.”; (“D & C” 132:30) “be gods because they have no end…..from everlasting to everlasting……because all things are subject unto them”. CA Response Mormon teaching contradicts Jesus’ teaching 2000 years earlier, ”For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (Mk12:25),(also harmonically (Mt22:23-30),Lk20:27-35). The argument used by Mormons concerning the 9 parable wives were improperly sealed is totally IRRELEVANT. As the real problem, with the Mormon position is its direct opposition to Jesus’ words, repeated in three of the four gospels. Although Mormons have adapted their faith teaching on polygamist marriages due to US Federal Law, thus preventing further US arrests. The LDS maintain a “heavenly hope” of polygamous relationships in heaven, as men are allowed more than one celestial marriage in the temple when his spouse dies. Since the Claim that “Jesus” is one of Smith’s witness, Jesus words per Smith says “Jesus has changed his word, stating in the restored church, “humans remain married in the celestial heaven”….Smith’s Book of Mormon therefore crucifies the Lord Jesus Christ by making Jesus a LIAR, ….OR Is it NOT more likely Joseph Smith & his prophets are the Con-men LIARS & deceivers?
  17. What is the Mormon view of salvation?: (“D & C” 27:11) describes, the Archangel Michael became Adam. God then creates Eve, and Satan tempted Adam & Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge. After disobeying God, Adam & Eve became mortal. LDS teach this as an upward fall, necessary as part of God’s plan, as neither could have children. Mormons also teach that all souls are granted another opportunity to hear the gospel and choose Jesus, if they refuse him in this life. The souls that followed LDS ordinances and sealed in the temple live eternally in the highest celestial kingdom, even being exalted and become gods themselves. The rest dwell in the lower telestial kingdom or even lower in the terrestrial kingdom where god does not reign but the Holy Ghost is present. Yet all three have glory that surpasses understanding. Only a handful of beings Satan and his angels live in eternal outer darkness. The 3rd article of LDS faith states, “all mankind can be saved through obedience to laws and ordinances of the gospels, per the Book of Mormon “We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we are saved, after all we can do” (2Neph25:23). ” C A response: There is absolutely no Hebrew or Christian evidence for Michael the Arch-Angel faithful pure spirit, “Defender of the Church” who battles Satan and his followers as having fallen too?, Into a Mormon reincarnated “Double Think Loop”; first fighting Vs. Lucifer & his cohorts of angels! then as Adam & Eve becoming fallen human Man. Only to once again be restored as Arch-angel for the final battle as God’s warrior before the Last Judgment in Apostles John’s Revelation? According to Mormon “eternal progression theology” Michael the Arch-Angel falls becomes Adam (man) then becomes a god? Then Adam-god becomes an angel to fight Satan? In this Mormon theology being god has its risks of reincarnation angel, angel to man to god to angel?, is this Smith’s logic! Or this is just another Crucifixion of Christ making Jesus a LIAR! Catholics do not teach and never taught, that our works earn our salvation but we can receive merit. (Rom2:2-8) Nor are we saved by faith alone (sola fide)! Rather we must be baptized and remain persevering throughout our lives in sanctifying grace through ongoing reception of sacramental graces to avoid mortal sin unto death (1Jn5:16-17), that Christ gave us the Church. Reincarnation is a human device and false. These scripture references, Catholic teaching is consistent with and clearly DISPUTES the Mormon view on salvation that contradicts each & every one of them. (a) appointed for man to die once (Heb9:27), (b) many that say, “Lord Lord” are turned away, & those that don’t love their brethren will go away in eternal punishment (Mt7:21, 25:46), Strive to enter (Lk13:24), you must drink my blood and eat my flesh or you have no life within you,…. so who eats me will live because of me.(Jn6:53-57),according to his grace (2Tim1:9),work out your salvation in fear and trembling (Phil2:12), you attain your goal (1Pet1:9), he who endure to the end (Mt10:22), who loses his life for my sake (Mk8:35), those who have been enlightened who have tasted the heavenly gift….then commit apostasy for they crucify the Son of God….(Heb6:4-6),and (c) One God, no other savior, I know no other (Is44:8, 43:10-11), (Jn1:1-3)) and many more scriptural verses to choose from.
  18. The great Apostasy?: Mormons believe that Christ intended to install a visible authoritative church, on Earth. The Church, Jesus left and sent the Holy Ghost to his Apostles fell into a great Apostasy once all that lived at the time of Christ died, according to J/ Smith. The Church became influenced by Pagan influences and ceased to have authority to ordain priests. The Book of Mormon describes the post Apostolic Church that took away “plain and precious scripture”. And persecutes the Saints of God (1Neph13) Its missionaries state this occurred due to man made ordinances, into its doctrines and practices, such as priests vestments, or changes in the mass (services). Mormons will even point to the Protestant Reform movement as a believed general apostasy, claiming they should have reformed the Church from within rather than break away entirely. Mormons reference OT prophesy (Amos8:11-13), (Is24:5), (Is29:13), NT – (2Cor11:13-15), (Gal1:6-7), (2Tim1:13-15), 2Thes2:2-3)………… C A Response:We agree Christ founded a Visible Authoritative Church, and we agree it would have been better that Protestant reform settle dissensions from within rather than breaking away. Yet Luther {guilty of heresy Crucifying Christ (Heb6:4-6)} having made a vow before God to remain Obedient to his superiors, as well as celibate. Yet he wanted to be married to a Catholic nun, prayed unlawful liturgical masses to the faithful, by doing mass his way. But here the agreement ends. The KVJ translation (in old English 1611 is quaint), however, the 10 references below are taken verbatim from the KVJ Holy Scripture, as The LDS uses – KVJ Bible as one sacred scriptural source for “standard works”. Though J. Smith or other Mormon leaders preach criticism of the Catholic Church. Each FAIL to reference and quote their anti- Catholic dogma using long established, published sources from Catholic texts, “APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION “Fidei Depositum,” (hated by all Heretics and Schismatics) throughout two millennia. Though readily available in the USA, J Smith doesn’t consult this document of Faith, when contradicting the Bible when writing the “Book Of Mormon”, he is purposely silent. Mormons reference (Isa24:5) “the breaking of the covenant”and general lawlessness of the people. Living Mormons, blissfully accepting J. Smith’ errors, are Muted and blinded in sin all fail to understand this prophesy about Jesus ……“Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples (Isa8:13-17) And so that is exactly what they did! Every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people. (Acts3:21-23)(Dt18:15-19; Lv23:29)). (#1) ‘”Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints (Jude3-4), late 90 -100AD. (#2) In Jesus words,”..”Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Mt5:17) Matthew written approx. (50-70AD). (#3) “But those things, which God before had shown by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.(Acts3:18) Acts written by Luke approx. (62-63AD). (#4) When Jesus appeared to the Apostles ..” And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”(Lk24:44) (this verse is clearly (1st person past tense) (Completed no later than 62AD). (#5) “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Hb1:1-12); The following scripture (Hb1:5 -Ps2:7, 2Sm7:14); (Hb1:6 – Dt32:43); (Hb1:7 -Ps104:4); Hb1:8-9,-Ps45:6-7); (Hb1:10 -12,-Ps102:25-27); (Hb1:13 -Ps101:1) and “God’s works are perfect” (Dt32:4) Amen! (Hb1:1-4) Hebrews is said to be written before 70AD. (#6) “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ”. (Jn1:1-3) (#7) “For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.” (Mt13:17). Book of Matthew written approx. 50-70AD. (#8) “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Mt24:35). (#9) “.Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.( Lk21:32) (10) “For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (Lk21:22)
    Jesus Christ gave us a new and everlasting covenant”. “Heaven and earth All the above Holy Scripture verses cited were “spoken and written” prior to 100 AD. “The Church declared “all public revelation ceased at the death of the last Apostle”, and in accord with the Isiah prophesy (8:13-17) According to their written and oral instructions and tradition from the men whom Jesus Christ himself chose. For Smith had known one of the earliest truths held by this visible Church, { that God spoke through the prophets of old in the O.T. But what God foretold by mouth of the prophets, that Christ shall suffer, he thus fulfilled. (Completed!) Smith’s imprudent claim of apostasy at 100 AD without understanding (Isa8:13-17), further denies the KVJ Bible in his own Standard Works, as these holy men that wrote the Gospels and epistles had declared Christ’s perfect work fulfilled the OT prophets, and their verses while walking on earth, expressed above. The Apostles taught, wrote,& preached the “public revelation ceased doctrine”, Just another one of J. Smith’s “inadvertent, but obvious errors?” Both are uncomfortable, indisputable fact! If not?, Otherwise an impostors like J. Smith, and others would claim and twist their truth for their own greedy ends. Not the Christ! So God’s word is preserved, true and faithful? Thus J. Smith crucifies the Lord by calling Jesus a LIAR! (DT18:20-22) Let us look into this allegation further; against Jesus and his Church. So we are to believe J. Smith at his word, (a 14 year old self proclaimed prophet), the Church FAILED and fell only into apostasy by around 100AD. Now this is your belief? Was Christ crucified?, resurrected? and ascended into heaven? sitting at the right hand of the Father, does this and many recorded miracles, witness to the truth to establish his church only to fail 70 years later? Yet Mormons still count themselves as Christian, WHY? When you claim JESUS,Son of God was a failure? within 100 years and came down with the Father appearing before J. Smith’s beggarly asking for (needed) HELP from a child? Help in God’s restoration of his broken Church? (DT18:20-22) Partially due to Pagan influences of 1700 years before?, how paradoxical? The Church Jesus founded here on earth, the Church Jesus prayed for and received the witness from the Father sends (the Holy Spirit to guide his Church to Truth). (1Tim3:15) This event recorded in (Acts2:1-42)! Was this Holy Spirit sent only for that day? Only to fail less than 80 years later? What evidence, what witness does Smith produce besides his knowledge that the last eye witness to Christ is now dead and the church proclaimed all scriptural revelation ended at the death of the last Apostle?! To refute (Mt28:20) & (Mt16:18), (Jn14:16)) Mormons use to cite Christian Apostasy! J Smith & his Church, WHY did you not at least use citations chapter & verse, from the “Apostolic Constitution” – the catholic catechism and its footnotes?; providing the Holy Scripture that disproves any of it? Such truths had been available in the USA as early as, In 1788 a catechism was published in New York which in all likelihood was a reprint of “Butler’s Catechism”. Could it be that in 110 AD as the Church began to refer to itself as “Catholic ‘{universal “the One and Only”} Church. Maybe J. Smith became confused, thinking we (Christians) disappeared? As the Christians 110AD refer to themselves as “Catholic”! But the most prized hypothesis is the Catholic teaching and NT scripture stating that the scripture is henceforth CLOSED and future prophets are heretical. At the death of the apostles. …for you have one Master, The Christ.(Mt23:10), entrust to faithful men.. able to teach others, (2Tim2:2) or continue in what you have learned…and from whom you received it (2Tim3:14) or heaven forbid “O Timothy…..Avoid the godless chatter and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge, for by professing it, some have missed the mark as regards to faith”(1Tim6:20-21!. In fact, the Apostles preached the gospel, healing the sick, made the blind see, drank poison and raised people from the dead, as recorded throughout Acts and the Holy Scriptures of the New Testament. We Katholikes remain this DAY – “steadfast to the Apostles teaching and fellowship, breaking the bread and to the prayers,”(Acts2:42) just as One, on the 1st day, today and always! Catholic Apostolic Succession The apostlePeter is the first Bishop of Rome and his successor Linus, then AnaCletus, by Clement I then Evaristus taking us to 97-107AD was martyred and laid to rest near St Peter (martyred) laid to rest in the Vaticano under the alter at St Peter’s Basilica. All 4 of these men were ordained as priests by Peter, the Apostle, mentioned in your KVJ 195 times more than then the other 11 combined. Next, # 5th Pope (papa) is Alexander I, he reigned till 116 AD, was beheaded and martyred and laid to rest in the martyrs’ cemetery in Rome. (To this day a Catholic Church property)! The consecutive unbroken chain the succession of Popes of Rome continues today, 2013-8 #266 Pope Francis. But what of the 11 Apostolic cedes did they just vanish as J. Smith claims in 100AD too? As with the Roman (Peter) the other 11 apostolic cedes prospered and have the same unbroken chain of successors, these include today (some Coptics, Greek and Russian Orthodox of the Eastern rites, thus they too maintain their sacramental privileges that the Protestant Reform churches sacrificed for new religion with faith in a book – and terms of “sola scriptura” or sola fede, from an Apostate monk! Further, Jesus even astonishing one of the new church’s most hated enemies, converts Saul into one of the greatest disciples of the Age. Paul (see Acts9:1-15)) Saul Saul why do you persecute me? …..Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel.”.. Paul a great figure of the NT was laid to rest underneath the alter of St Paul ‘Outside the Walls” Basilica in Rome.(a Roman Catholic property to this day)! Throughout Church history Christ’s Catholic Church has faced apostasies and are recorded in history of the Church for all to read. For example in (Acts11:1-18) the first counsel @ Jerusalem decided certain Hebrew dietary issues. The 2nd Council @ Jerusalem decided an issue of circumcision. (Acts15:2-29) but chose Baptism. Do you not suppose many Jews left in disgust or did they all give Glory to God for including gentiles in his salvation? Conflicts arise and when significant issues or disputes it was deemed appropriate to be decided by the College of Bishops just as in (Acts11), later again in (Acts15). Much like the Hebrews’ Sanhedrin. Never, was there a general Apostasy. Maybe the largest schism occurred with the eastern Churches 1045 AD, yet parts of those Apostolic cedes had returned by 1650 AD.
  19. Church losses its Authority Appointment of priests (Mt18:17,18), (Mt16:18,19), (Mt28:18-20), (Lk1:32), (Lk10:16), (Lk15:28), (1Cor11:23-24), (Acts1:13-26),(1Tim3:15), (Jn14:16),(Jn20:23), Where by what means did the Church lose its authority to ordain priests? did any of these verses have a time limit? Where in the scriptures immediately above is there a ‘condition’? a constraint? Oh please, explain. Pagan influences? J. Smith! The simple mindedness of such a claim…The “Jesus Christ of LDS” founded in 1830? – LDS Church that teaches the “King Follett Discourse – Sermon?” and I quote, ‘God himself was once as we are now, and an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” Also J. Smith wrote in “Lectures on Faith” (1834-5) “the father and the son are separate gods, the holy spirit is merely the mind of the two”! (Bi theism)(contradicts spirit children doctrines) : Your (Book of Abraham, ch-4) teaches the existence of multiple gods in the creation of the world? Mormons refer to this belief as a plurality of gods..Lorenzo Snow once President of LDS church teaches “As man now is God once was, As God now is, man may be”. This LDS church is the Definition of 1) Polytheism Polytheism….The belief in, and consequent worship of, many gods. Examples in 100AD ancient religions of Egypt, Greece, and Rome; & 2) Pagan :Pagan v.. derived from the Latin pagus, The term is also used as the equivalent of Polytheism. It also means, a religion that is NOT “the One and Only, true Church of God! {Kathilike}.
  20. Engaging a Mormon as a Catholic. After working with Mormons for over 20 years, I find that there is very little that Scripture or other Truths that move them to leave their Mormon Community, and accept the Catholic Church. The Mormons, I worked with each share and feel a tight bonding as every part of their physical (“corporal”) welfare is intertwined with church, social, family. and even work, Their families, lifestyle and most likely job are dependent on their participation in their Church. Above are countless truth-filled arguments and numerous “double think doctrines”, from the LDS “standard works”, yet they can hold both contradictions as true. Unless, the individual is interested in seeking the truth no apologetic facts make a difference. As Jesus said, “if anyone comes to me you must hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters sisters he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple”. (Lk14:2-27). Paul writes in Titus; But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels over the law , for they are unprofitable and futile. (Titus3:9) What we can do as Catholic Apologists we must explain, “we can NEVER accept” J. Smith’s books, & ideas (DT18:20-22) . Below are 3 reasons why! 1. Jesus founded our Church Yr 33AD.(Jn5:24), (Jn17:18-19) Our Church’s birth is known as Pentecost. (Acts2) “Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.” St Ignatius of Antioch (50-117AD), (Ad Smyrn,8,2: Apostolic Fathers). The Apostles of the gospels are the Early Fathers whose APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION Fidei Depostum, the guarded mission of the WORD of God – Jesus the Christ the bridegroom wedded his Church, we believe! For us there is None other. 2. Sacraments – St. Thomas Aquinas “ Summa Theologiae ” Sacraments principal effect which is grace. Now the sacraments are ordained unto certain special effects which are necessary in the Christian life, grace, considered in itself, perfects the essence of the soul,” (Vs) – Outside the Apostolic Universal Church (12 Apostolic Cedes) this is nonexistent, or invalidly taught without apostolic authority “The Moses chair” as commanded by Jesus. 3. Catholic Doctrine is based from what is received from Jesus written & oral scripture, (Dt18:15-19) and traditions (Paradosis) as received from Jesus the Christ. & the Early Church Fathers, the Apostles ( the 1st Christians).. When we say written this includes the OT known as the Septuagint Hebrew Greek bible, “all books commonly used and accepted by the 1st Christians ( the custom). (It is this OT version that was quoted by Jesus and the Apostles including Paul in the New Testament). (Eph2:19-20), Also written are thousands of Church documents and fragments from Epistles and sermons of the Apostles including Paul’s, that “she” chose…”now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples which are NOT written in this book, but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.” (Jn20:30-31) Oral teachingKatechesis” as passed from Jesus to the Apostles, to their successors – in the Catholic Church, during the 3+ years of Jesus ministry and following his Resurrection until his Ascension (Lk24:38-49); Finally, do we not imitate the Christ? Jesus could have personally written everything he commanded but did not, as we know he was a highly educated Jew. Gospel example: Jesus wrote only 1 time in the gospels with his finger in the dust, this was Jesus demonstrating Jewish Oral Law that he would uphold even IF the accusers were not. (Jn8:1-11) Added references: (a)..not everything Jesus said or did is written…(Jn21:25), (b) “These are the words I (Jesus) have spoken to you…then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures” (OT), (Lk24:44-45,49), (c) Early life of Jesus, His mother Mary (Lk1,2 & 3). (d) Nowhere in the gospels is Jesus words recorded (written) as used by Paul in (Acts 20:35), (e) faith comes from what is heard-(Rom10:17), (f) God’s eternal word preached to you (1Pet1: 25), (g) heaven and earth may pass away but my word won’t (Mk13:31), (h) Jesus,”All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me…..observe ALL that I have commanded you,… behold I AM with you always, to the close of the Age”(Mt28:18-20) }. Tradition: The Greek paradosis, in the ecclesiastical sense, which is the only one in which it is used here, refers sometimes to the thing (doctrine, account, or custom) transmitted from one generation to another; sometimes to the organ or mode of the transmission (kerigma ekklisiastikon, predicatio ecclesiastica). Ref: Hold fast to the traditions..(1Cor11:2), hold fast to traditions..oral or letter..(2Thes2:15), shun those..not acting (2Thes3:6), follow my sound words…(2Tim1:13), what you heard entrust…(2Tim2:2), no prophesy.. private interpretation (2Pet1:20), ..being saved if you…(1Cor15:1-20), Moses seat..(Mt23:2-3) is a reference to the tradition of teaching authority. Also see also Athanasius Church Doctor (previously quoted); St Irenaeus (AD200) Against Heresies 1,10,2; St Augustine (392) ..”the journeys of the apostles, the suffering, the crosses, blood and death of the martyrs, admirable lives of saints, when we see so much fruit, we should hesitate to bury ourselves in the bosom of the Church? For starting from the Apostolic chair down through successions of Bishops in open confession, she possessed the Crown of teaching authority.” The Advantage of Believing 35Athansius is MY 1st witness that the faith was preserved in the Catholic Church, as of 360 AD, 250 years after J. Smith claimed the Church had a TOTAL APOSTASY! Who is J. Smith witness? Outside the Book of Mormon? For I have many many others, as the Catholic Church, in possession of many thousand manuscripts (Early Church fathers great works of faith) having made them ALL available (on the internet).

I appeal to brethren, by the name of Jesus Christ, that you all agree that there is NO dissension among you, that you be united in the same mind and same judgment. (1Cor1:10) with the One and Only True Church founded by Jesus Christ. You are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of Apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the corner-stone (Eph2:19-20) – The Catholic Church! The One and Only {Katholike} grk. Yet, “ Jesus prays for His Church, “I have given them your word and the world hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.”(Jn17:14).

This essay was written for my daughter, Lauren: I borrowed directly from “Mormonism 20 Answers” – from Catholic Answers (C A) from Tom Horn my attempt to summarize & synthesize his work. I have made several additional points that are my own “Outside the Walls of Tom Horns Book”- Dad. (Last updated -12/21/2018)

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